Is it Time for a New Catholic Schism?

If I were a Catholic, it would not be lost on me that there are currently two popes–one “official,” in office, and one somewhat less official, in retirement, a situation not seen in almost 600 years, since the Papal Schism of 1378 to 1417.

You’re not supposed to have two popes, just like you can’t have two Christs. You can have a Pope and an Anti-Pope, a Christ and an Anti-Christ.

The main complaints against Benedict were that he was ugly and too inclined toward traditional Catholicism. The main complaints against Francis are that he is flinging open the doors of the Church to welcome its enemies into Europe:

Pope Francis demanded Poland “overcome fear” and open their borders to Muslim migrants who are “fleeing wars and hunger”. The pontiff claimed wars are nothing to do with religion as “all religions want peace”. …

Alluding to Poles’ reluctance to accept Muslim migrants, the Pope declared that none of the conflict in the world is related to religion in any way.

He said: “When I speak of war I speak of wars over interests, money, resources, not religion. All religions want peace, it’s the others who want war.” …

Pope Francis urged Poland to welcome migrants “fleeing” from a number of things including “hunger” and the lack of “fundamental rights”. …

The Pope’s headline appearance at World Youth Day was overshadowed by news that Islamists in France had beheaded an 85 year old Catholic priest during morning mass.

This is not the first time Francis has spoken on such matters.

If I were Catholic, I would conclude that Francis is the Anti-Pope, Benedict is the real Pope, and act accordingly.

But I am not a Catholic, so I just conclude that Catholicism has been memetically captured by the Cathedral.


18 thoughts on “Is it Time for a New Catholic Schism?

    • Ireland has been an interesting recent case of massive social change in a (once) heavily Catholic country. Over a thousand years of dedicated Catholicism (of the admittedly Irish variety) and suddenly, poof, it’s basically gone.


      • Legit but they gave women the vote way early, as well as getting into the wealth distribution business pretty early but like you said, held out on some other areas.

        Not only did they embrace the soical change, they did so from the grass roots on up, where in the Protestant usa most of the social change has been forced from on high. Especially so do here in the Rural South


  1. The Pope/Anti-Pope dichotomy has a lot going for it.

    The main problem is, Benedict XVI is still a flaming progressive by the standards of Tradition.


      • Absolutely correct. (Let’s set aside the possibility of some Catholic Kingdom inventing/finding/defending a ‘real Pope’ who’s a third party and is justified by the sweep of history, since that just ain’t gonna happen. France isn’t in the business of Pope-making anymore.)

        The problem is that compromises like that aren’t likely to get the standard Traditionalist (who is probably around 60 anyway) to get off the couch. He’d much rather belly-ache, especially since while there’s a Schelling point for the endgame (Benedict XVI), there’s no organization aimed at changing which butt warms the See of Peter’s throne.

        If the SSPX ever decides to stop its casuistic somersaults and mobilize its adherents to create/discover an alternate hierarchy, then we’ll talk.


  2. It has been apparent for some time the Pope is more of a socialist than a majority of Catholics. His pleading on behalf of immigrants leads me to believe that he is dangerously naïve, and should be dismissed as a serious individual for that reason.


  3. The problem is that the hierarchy as a whole, and especially the Cardinals, who vote for Pope, has turned against traditionalism. If you, like Cd. Lefebvre want real Catholicism of the Council of Trent kind, you have to leave the Church.

    There are, in fact, a small number of schismatic Catholics who have repudiated Vatican II. You can find them online:

    NB. While I am sympathetic to the traditionalists, I am lapsed and more or less an atheist nowadays.


    • These societies recognize but resist the changes of V2 the true “traditionalists” are called sedevacantists and they so not recognize the popes since the begining of public heresy by “John 23rd”. These societies recognize the office of these modernists as legitimate even though there teachings are completely in contrary to what the Catholic Church was before the council. A bad tree cannot bear forth good fruit.


  4. But I am not a Catholic, so I just conclude that Catholicism has been memetically captured by the Cathedral.

    The ontology of “Catholicism” is dubious, at least debatable. The ontology of The Church is not. Thus the question is: Has The Church been captured by the Cathedral? The Church is much much bigger, and more authoritative, than her Bishops. Obviously the princes of the Church are not immune to the intellectual fashions of the state, but does that mean the Church, herself, is captured by them. I think not. But time will tell.


  5. Or that there has not been a valid pope in office since Pope Pius XII in 1958 before the second Vatican council when Protestantism/modernism crept in and destroyed the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and Catholic life as the world knew it for almost 2,000 years.



    Here is a page that puts the errors of Vatican 2 side by side with the actual teachings of the Catholic Church. They are either Catholic in full or not. You cannot accept parts of Catholicism, there is no such thing as a liberal or conservative Catholic. You either are or are not. It is also important to note that Cannon law 188 part 4 states “By tacit resignation through operation of law, all offices become vacant automatically [ipso facto] and without ANY declaration if a cleric… (4) publicly defects from the Catholic faith.”


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