The West has no Idea how to Handle Islam

ETA: more terrorist attacks have happened since I wrote this. I give up on covering them all.

Most of the world’s ethnic groups divide up pretty neatly–if not into countries, then into distinct groups spread across several different countries. Alliances between countries are normally formally announced, so that you know that if you attack, Japan circa 1942, you’re likely to be counter-attacked by Germany. You don’t have to worry, though, about being attacked by China, or random Chinese people living in your own country, because China isn’t Japan, doesn’t have an alliance with Japan, and the Chinese people don’t particularly care what you do to Japan so long as you don’t do it to them. (In fact, the Chinese were pretty pissed at Japan by that point.)

As long as two countries don’t have an alliance, you can normally attack one without worrying about the other.

Islamic identity seems to function somewhat differently (at least in some cases.)

Americans are used to thinking of religion as a set of beliefs, eg, “God made the world in 6 days,” or “Enlightened people move on to a higher plane of existence,” or “You shouldn’t turn on the lights on Saturday.” Religion therefore falls under our philosophical notion of freedom of conscience, enshrined in the First Amendment.

But throughout much of the world, religion functions much more like ethnicity than like belief. Yes, technically people from different religions believe different things, but as a practical matter, the belief that “We are people who follow the true religion and they are people who follow the false religion,” is more important than the specific details of the religions involved.

If you don’t believe me, just ask yourself what were the theological underpinnings of the conflict between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland?

It’s a near meaningless question. Knowing that the Catholics have a Pope and the Protestants don’t because centuries ago because King Henry VIII wanted a divorce tells you nothing useful. You just need to know that Catholics and Protestants see themselves as different groups.

Judaism is the only religion Westerners have much experience with and are used to thinking of as operating like an ethnic group. Most Westerners I’ve discussed the subject with seem vaguely confused about what exactly Judaism is, but they understand pretty well that if you start massacring Jews in your country, you should expect a visit from the Israeli air force.

But Jews are a relatively small group, with only one official country which has clearly articulated alliances with others, so there is not too much confusion on the point.

Recent random terrorist attacks in the West have included a Pakistani couple who opened fire at a Christmas party in an Bernardino, CA; a Moroccan Tunisian man who drove a truck into a crowd of French folks celebrating Bastile Day; and an Afghan teenager who attacked a train full of Germans with an axe.

The US is not at war with Pakistan*, France with Morocco, nor Germany with Afghanistan. Random American, French, and German citizens abroad do not, to my knowledge, make politically motivated mass-attacks on their host countries.

*Or is the US? I know Obama has authorized drone strikes on targets within Pakistan, among other countries. It was easy under Bush II to keep track of America’s military engagements, because they were big, declared, and obvious. Under Obama, we are not exactly at war with Pakistan, but we do sometimes kill people who happen to be living in Pakistan, like Osama Bin Laden. It’s confusing.

At any rate, according to Wikipedia, the Farooks were motivated by the desire to be jihadis and allegiance to ISIL, not Pakistan. Riaz Ahmadzai, the 17 year old Afghan, also appears to have acted on behalf of ISIL (though probably not on ISIL’s instruction,) not Afghanistan’s. Mohamed Lahouaiej-Bouhlel, the Tunisian armed with a 19-ton truck, also committed his attack on behalf of ISIL, not Tunisia. Fun fact: “A UN report from May 2015 shows that 25,000 “foreign terrorist fighters” from 100 countries have joined “Islamist” groups, many of them working for ISIL or al-Qaeda.[393]

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The US, France, Germany, Russia, India, and probably the majority of the world are, in fact, at war with ISIL, which makes it kind of incredible that it still exists–the rest of the world has forgotten how to conduct wars.

You might think that ISIL draws its supporters from the ranks of the super-devout, but the opposite is most likely true:

“I always thought the people most likely to join a terrorist group were the people praying five times a day with a beard and being very pious and going to a radical mosque,” says Usmani, who is Muslim and was born in Pakistan. He came to the U.S. to do his PhD at Florida Institute of Technology.

But what he found is that they are more likely to go from secular to radicalized. They are often educated online — among the 5,000+ YouTube videos from supposed Muslim “scholars.” Technology has enabled an explosion of content that is far from true Islam.*

Now, this is a rotten pickle. It’s bad enough to worry about about Japanese-Americans when you are at war with Japan; it’s another thing entirely to have to worry about anyone whose parents were vaguely Buddhist.

I am particularly saddened by all of this for personal reasons. This isn’t the world I asked for; I certainly don’t want this conflict.

I assume the solution is to actually defeat ISIL instead of pussy-footing around so that it stops being a problem. But look how well that went the last time we tried to take over a country in the Middle East and replace its government with a more favorable regime.

 

*Phrases like “true Islam” annoy me because as far as I know, there is no Islamic “Pope” who gets to decide what is and isn’t “true Islam.” Nevertheless, it remains a constant in my experience that really devout people (of whatever religion) tend to believe more in principles like “love everyone because we are all God’s children,” than moderate religious folks.

 

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14 thoughts on “The West has no Idea how to Handle Islam

  1. Don’t know where to begin on this one…

    The West political elites are all about the blank slate, i’m ok you’re OK bullshit, but just about any Redneck in the trailer park instinctual understands how to deal with moslems better then the folks in the upper level of government, the military not excluded

    islam has no love others in it. War, rape and enslavement of non moslem is called for repeatedly in the 3 koran, hadith even more so. They do not value the same things in the same way. In islam, almost everyone spends some time in hell, like jail time, before getting into hajji heaven. Dying in jhid gets you a non stop flight to paradise. A short time in hell is considered merciful in islam; in the Christian faith, mercy is skipping that whole hell thing, even when we have it coming

    One day, at band camp my crew and I were doing our thing for a rather important Kuwaiti. Friendly enough guy, lived in the usa and uk, seemed to like america etc. Any rate he was telling us this story; him and his other high Roller Kuwaiti pals where in various meetings right after the towers went down. Most men in the room thought the usa was a bunch of pussies because ordinary citizens didn’t go out in mass and fuck up hajjis. No understanding of a poroptinal response, no understanding that in the West, we have professional to go and do that sort of thing. Remember those were all educated, wealthy and worldly men with serious government pull.

    Point is, they don’t understand Western ways at all. Our ideas of justices and what not is viewed as weaknesses

    Story #2) buddy of mine had this job in the A-stan where he drove around and dropped money off to various villages, so those villages could build stuff like schools and medical clinics. Which they almost never did. Mostly the village bossman would buy used trucks, maybe a tractor, live stock, extra wives, and once a couple of sewing machines. Transportation, farm tools, work/ business equipment are much more useful for semi bronze age substance farmers then a school, yet on every trip, the village would get its be cool or elseven money, and a lecture about building a school or some such nonsense.

    Point being, we don’t understand them

    Then comes Western incompetence

    World stage issues have 3 basic resolutions

    Purely political, like a trade agreement or some such
    Purely military, we kill all your dudes, break all your shit, fuck your old ladies, take over your land and steal what we didn’t take

    And of course the combination of the two. Like our dude who took that navy fleet to Japan and pretty much forced open trade ( or so the story goes)

    Current Western leadership has no idea when to do which of the three.

    Military incompetence is ass deep or deeper at the senior level. #1 senior officers are chosen for politically reliability over combat effectiveness. Effective and competent officers and nco’s who do stay in are rarely concentrated in any one location to effect serious policy change…. then comes SOCOM, which is an officer career semi killer, but a giant fucking vacuum sucking in the majority of the extremely talented officers and nco’s. Even when they are support poges. It’s a good life, it’s good to be working with true professionals and men rarely leave ( expect me, your never humble special snow flake). Any rate, SOCOM has its own culture which has limited impact on the officer ranks of the conventional military.

    Last time efficient I looked at the mapartment, I said I could defeat the islamic state in 90 days or less with the right rules of engagement, two beefed up armored cav regiments, the 82nd with a lot of extra artillery and good air support, close air/ resupply drops, shit hot medevacs

    The shit ain’t hard. It’s the will to dominate that is missing

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    • Elites get to hang out with other elites, who tend to get along well and not be overtly hostile toward each other. They see other elites as good people and their personal friends, and nobody wants to fuck over their friends.

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      • “Elites get to hang out with other elites, who tend to get along well and not be overtly hostile toward each other.”

        That’s all surface. In truth, they’re incredibly vicious competitors and politics tend to come easily to them. Unlike the lower and middle classes, they compete and undermine each other in subtle ways. When they fight, it’s to the death. So, like big predators, they only strike when they need to.

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  2. The west knows how to handle moslems. General Blackjack Pershing and Thomas Jefferson stopped jihad against white nations for generations each. The (((elites))) who let moslems into Spain before the Inquisition are importing the 3rd world for profit again. Islam’s only victories have been using other peoples civilization against them. Moslems hate everything about the west except the benefits office.

    Its the bad moslems that jihad will be most attractive to as committing jihad absolves all of their sins, & they believe they will have all the infidels they kill as slaves in the afterlife. Now think about the Afghani moslem who went into the gay nightclub Pulse on latin night but let blacks walk free, he didn’t want blacks around him for eternity even as slaves.

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  3. If Islam did have a pope, then Islam could police itself, and not get batshit loonies acting on their own authority in the name of Allah. The fact that Shia recognizes a national leader (Supreme Ayatolla or whatev) seems to tamp down on the loonies reasonably well, to a much better extent that we see in Sunni.

    The way for the west to “handle” Islam is to handle it not at all: Quarantine.

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  4. Islam does not have a Pope, but it did, does, and can have a Caliph.

    Before I discovered Moldbug and reaction, I had been writing a book on Islam. Ironically, there are some similarities between Reaction and Islamism. Read Milestones by Sayid Qutub.

    I agree that this is a world I didn’t sign on for. As such, I see a great potential for reaction to be a solution in search of a problem: The Clash Of Civilisations.

    Progressivist insistence that Muslims “integrate” is one half of the conflict. Moldbug’s plan of absolute sovereignty and Patchwork is a possible peace-plan with the Muslims. I myself, had come to a similar conclusion:

    https://darkreformation101.wordpress.com/2016/06/30/the-dark-reformation-part-4-a-vison-for-a-new-arabia/

    https://darkreformation101.wordpress.com/2016/06/25/the-dark-reformation-part-4-the-islam-delusion-and-kuffars-for-the-caliphate/

    I am going to post the first chapter of a forthcoming book later this week (The Islam Delusion) — In The Shadow Of The Sword Of Allah: Islam In Theory And Practice. It puts Islam in theological, historical and contemporary perspective.

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  5. No one ever successfully “dealt with Islam” once it was in their borders, unless you count USSR genociding them by the million. From that point on it’s the slow march to a caliphate. Most places did not become muslim by a huge conquest but by a few people crossing the border here and there and then slowly growing in numbers, then suddenly violent takeover of everything seemingly out of the blue.

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  6. PROHIBIT KILLING WITH UNJUST:

    3:21. Verily! Those who disbelieve in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah and kill the Prophets without right, and kill those men who order just dealings, announce to them a painful torment.
    5: 32. Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land – it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allah by committing the major sins) in the land!.
    6: 151. Say (O Muhammad SAW): “Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited you from: Join not anything in worship with Him; be good and dutiful to your parents; kill not your children because of poverty – We provide sustenance for you and for them; come not near to Al-Fawâhish (shameful sins, illegal sexual intercourse, etc.) whether committed openly or secretly, and kill not anyone whom Allâh has forbidden, except for a just cause (according to Islâmic law). This He has commanded you that you may understand.
    Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 371
    Yazid al-Faqir said: This view of the Khwarij (i. e. those who commit major sins and would be eternally doomed to Hell)
    Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 159 ,160
    Ubaidullah b. Abu Bakr said: I heard Anas b. Malik saying: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) talked about the major sins, or he was asked about the major sins. Upon this he observed: Associating anyone with Allah, killing of a person, disobedience to parents. He (the Holy Prophet further) said: Should I not inform you about the gravest of the major sins, and (in this connection) observed: False utterance or false testimony. Shu’ba said. It was most probably” false testimony”.
    17: 33. And do not kill anyone which Allah has forbidden, except for a just cause. And whoever is killed (intentionally with hostility and oppression and not by mistake), We have given his heir the authority [(to demand Qisâs, Law of Equality in punishment or to forgive, or to take Diya (blood money)]. But let him not exceed limits in the matter of taking life (i.e he should not kill except the killer only). Verily, he is helped (by the Islamic law).
    25: 68. And those who invoke not any other ilâh (god) along with Allah, nor kill such life as Allah has forbidden, except for just cause, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse and whoever does this shall receive the punishment.
    49: 6. O you who believe! If a rebellious evil person comes to you with news, verify it, lest you harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful to what you have done.
    Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 89 :: Hadith 320
    Not to join anything in worship along with Allah, (2) Not to steal, (3) Not to commit illegal sexual intercourse, (4) Not to kill your children, (5) Not to accuse an innocent person (to spread such an accusation among people), (6) Not to be disobedient (when ordered) to do good deeds.
    Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 58 :: Hadith 233
    Narrated ‘Ubada bin As Samit:
    I was one of the Naqibs who gave the (‘Aqaba) Pledge of Allegiance to Allah’s Apostle . We gave the pledge of allegiance to him that we would not worship anything other than Allah, would not steal, would not commit illegal sexual intercourse, would not kill a person whose killing Allah has made illegal except rightfully, would not rob each other, and we would not be promised Paradise if we did the above sins, then if we committed one of the above sins, Allah will give His Judgment concerning it.
    Muslim :: Book 7 : Hadith 3142
    Abu Huraira, (Allah be pleased with him) reported. When Allah, the Exalted and Majestic, granted Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) victory over Mecca, he stood before people and praised and extolled Allah and then said:…………it (this territory) was not violable to anyone before me and it was made violable to me for an hour of a day, and it shall not be violable to anyone after me. So neither molest the game, nor weed out thorns from it. And it is not lawful for anyone to pick up a thing dropped but one who makes public announcement of it. And it a relative of anyone is killed he is entitled to opt for one of two things. Either he should be paid blood-money or he can take life as (a just retribution).
    Muslim :: Book 17 : Hadith 4238
    Ubida b. as-Samit repnrted: I was one of those headmen who swore allegiance to Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) that we will not associate anything with Allah, and will not commit adultery, and will not steal, and will not kill any soul which Allah has forbidden, but with justice nor plunder, nor disobey (Allah and His Apostle), then Paradise (will be the reward) in case we do these (acts) ; and if we commit any outrage(bad, violence) (and that goes unpunished in the world), it is Allah Who would decide about it. Ibn Rumh said: Its judgment lies with Allah.
    Muslim :: Book 1 : Hadith 161
    It is reported on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed: Avoid the seven noxious things. It was said (by the hearers): What are they, Messenger of Allah? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Associating anything with Allah, magic, killing of one whom God has declared inviolate without a just cause, consuming the property of an orphan, and consuming of usury(intrest), turning back when the army advances(cowardness), and slandering(lie) chaste women who are believers, but unwary.
    Bukhari :: Book 6 :: Volume 60 :: Hadith 134
    …………… “I do not know that killing a person is lawful in Islam except in three cases: a married person committing illegal sexual intercourse, >>>one who has murdered somebody unlawfully<<>>>>A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) <<<<<<<<(2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle, and deserted Islam and became an apostate."
    Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 83 :: Hadith 6
    Narrated 'Abdullah:
    The Prophet said, "No human being is killed unjustly, but a part of responsibility for the crime is laid on the first son of Adam who invented the tradition of killing (murdering) on the earth. (It is said that he was Qabil).
    Muslim :: Book 16 : Hadith 4156
    'Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) having said: No person who is killed unjustly, but the share of (this offence of his also) falls upon the first son of Adam, for he was the first to introduce killing.
    Dawud :: Book 39 : Hadith 4487
    ……..I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) say: It is not lawful to kill a man who is a Muslim except for one of the three reasons: Kufr (disbelief) after accepting Islam, fornication after marriage, or wrongfully killing someone, for which he may be killed. ……………………
    Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 83 :: Hadith 21
    Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
    The Prophet said, "The most hated persons to Allah are three: (1) A person who deviates from the right conduct, i.e., an evil doer, in the Haram (sanctuaries of Mecca and Medina); (2) a person who seeks that the traditions of the Pre-lslamic Period of Ignorance, should remain in Islam (3) and a person who seeks to shed somebody's blood without any right."
    Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 83 :: Hadith 3
    Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
    One of the evil deeds with bad consequence from which there is no escape for the one who is involved in it is to kill someone unlawfully.
    Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 78 :: Hadith 667
    Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:
    The Prophet said, "The biggest sins are: To join others in worship with Allah; to be undutiful to one's parents; to kill somebody unlawfully; and to take an oath Al-Ghamus.
    Dawud :: Book 35 : Hadith 4247
    Narrated Abdullah ibn Umar:
    AbdurRahman ibn Samurah said: I was holding the hand of Ibn Umar on one of the ways of Medina. He suddenly came to a hanging head. He said: Unhappy is the one who killed him. When he proceeded, he said: I do not consider him but unfortunate. I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) say: If anyone goes to a man of my community in order to kill him, he should say in this way, the one who kills will go to Hell and the one who is killed will go to Paradise.

    https://shabeerhassan0.wordpress.com/2016/09/29/isis-vs-islam/

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